The generics of translation

Matt Mackall mpm at selenic.com
Mon Jul 2 16:53:00 CDT 2012


On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 21:13 +0200, Martin Schröder wrote:
> Am 02.07.2012 20:57, schrieb Matt Mackall:
> > On Mon, 2012-07-02 at 18:34 +0200, Adrian Buehlmann wrote:
> >> On 2012-07-02 17:58, Martin Schröder wrote:
> >>> Am 02.07.2012 17:43, schrieb Thomas Arendsen Hein:
> >>>> "vereinen" klingt hier für mich leicht unpassend, das Substantiv
> >>>> wäre ohnehin "Vereinigung" (nicht "Vereinung"), daher mein
> >>>> Vorschlag: "vereinigen" und "Vereinigung"
> >>>
> >>> Beide haben ziemlich genau die gleiche Bedeutung. "Die Vereinung" ist
> >>> tatsächlich sehr ungebräuchlich. "Das Vereinen" wiederum nicht.
> >>>
> >>> Ich bin weiterhin für "vereinen" oder dafür, "zusammenführen" zu behalten.
> >>
> >> I didn't really want to take part in your decision making processes, so
> >> please just take my posting as an idea. After all, there was a call for
> >> ideas... :-)
> >>
> >> And perhaps this should be taken off-list, if the discussion continues
> >> in German. Matt doesn't seem to like discussions in non-English on this
> >> list.
> > 
> > Ugh. Moving this discussion off-list is _exactly_ counter to my point. 
> > Instead, you're practically painting me as someone who insists on
> > English just because he arbitrarily hates foreigners or something.
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > If you're writing in a language that only a subset of Mercurial
> > translators can read, then every group of translators is just going to
> > have discussions about the same generic issues:
> > 
> > - should we copy jargon used by other SCMs or perfect our own?
> > - should we translate metaphorically or technically?
> > - which of the above is more important?
> > - etc.
> > 
> > EVERY word choice decision, even though it looks like it's just
> > language-specific trivia on the surface, is going to be rooted in more
> > generic principles. Formulating those principles 11 times each in 11
> > languages is the wrong process. And just choosing words based on what
> > feels right at a given moment is also the wrong process. Instead, we
> > should actively look for the generic issues, formulate one set of rules,
> > and apply them consistently within and across languages, and iteratively
> > improve the rules as we discover corner cases.
> > 
> > As a practical matter, that simply can't happen if we discuss these
> > issues in a language other than English.
> > 
> > Here's an example proposal:
> > 
> > --------
> > 
> > When translating a Mercurial-specific term like "pull":
> > 
> > - distinguish between usage as a literal command name (untranslated) and
> > as jargon (translated)
> > - translate the components of the metaphor (ie "push and pull a stack of
> > papers") to a natural set in the target language so that people can
> > benefit from the metaphor
> > - if there's no obvious translation of the metaphor, consider using a
> > transliteration[1] 
> > - terms that are likely to be translated back to the original English
> > term aid in cross-language communication (eg German<->Japanese)
> > - be wary of translation of Mercurial-specific terms to related jargon,
> > such as "pull"/"clone" -> <download>[2] as this may give users an
> > incomplete or wrong impression and result in confusing bug reports:
> > 
> >   Q: I did a download and my changes were missing
> >   A: What do you mean by download??
> > 
> > When translating a non-Mercurial-specific term like "patch":
> > 
> > - look for a widely-established precedent as used by other similar tools
> > for the technical term "patch"
> > - if multiple translations are well-established, favor the one that more
> > closely matches the metaphor (ie "patch a tire")
> > - otherwise, if a transliteration is well-established, favor it
> > - if no translations are well-established, translate the metaphor as
> > above
> > 
> > When translating pure jargon like "grep":
> > 
> > - favor transliteration
> > 
> > Keep a glossary at the head of the .po file
> > 
> > Focus on tracking the stable branch
> > 
> > [1] Note that "transliteration" is generally the same as "exact copy"
> > for languages using a Latin alphabet
> > [2] Note that if <download> was the optimal translation of "pull", the
> > English term probably would have been "download".
> > 
> > -----
> > 
> > Discuss, please.
> > 
> 
> That's what I was waiting for! :)
> Thank you, Matt!
> 
> Let's use this as a basis for a translation guideline.

Given that I have zero experience with translation, I'd be very
surprised if a first draft off the top of my head doesn't draw _any_
objections.

-- 
Mathematics is the supreme nostalgia of our time.




More information about the Mercurial-devel mailing list