The generics of translation

[Martin Schröder]

Matt:
> Discuss, please.
>

I like, what's going on here (besides Adrian's and Matt's
misunderstanding...).

Matt:
> Given that I have zero experience with translation, I'd be very
> surprised if a first draft off the top of my head doesn't draw _any_
> objections.

I was happy because someone finally said something one can work with. I
didn't have the time to reflect all remarks and proposals.

It's very hard to "translate the components of the metaphor". I have
never heard someone say: "Ich habe die Änderungen _gezogen_" ("I
_pulled_ the changes"). The current translation is "abrufen", which is
semantically between "pull" and "download".

Adrian:
> For Swiss-German, I'd say using the transliteration for the terms where
> Mercurial already has such a term in the command name (e.g. merge, pull,
> update), using a transliteration is almost mandatory.

As a German, I'm also very tolerant to adopt english words, especially
if they represent the common terminology in the field.
But I also like real German words :) Some words are really common
("Datei"="file", "Verzeichnis"="directory", ...) but with most
computer-related I'm happier with the English word (push, pull, commit,
GUI, largefile, repository, parser, patch, rebase, tool, ... are examples).
Also, there is a difference between spoken and formal language. My
friends and I use "merge" as a German verb, but would rather write
"zusammenführen" in a documentation.

The point is: The wiki article (text from former header of .po-file)
says (my translation) in its former version (which was altered by
Rupert; I don't know why):
The goal of the translation is
1) to explain the function of Mercurial to the user more comprehensible,
especially for users who aren't versed in the English language.
2) to _create_ basic terms in German in order that not every user
invents his own for communication or has to _use a German-English-mix_

The .po-file also said: How prefers English terms, doesn't need to
switch on the German translation.

These guidelines were written by Fabian (according to blame) and until
now I adhered to that.

So Fabian, what was your motivation to translate as much as possible
into German?
I don't think that using the original English terms in a German sentence
changes the ability of a user to understand the concepts behind mercurial.
It rather enhances this ability,
a) because he uses a terminology used by much more other people;
b) he hasn't to look up the original words, if he asks questions in the
international community.
And the English-German mix is so common in the German language today,
that one can't complain about some English words used for a clear
defined concept and that are used by the whole community.

My opinion is, that we should define and use some German terms which
correspond without doubt to the original English term (and only that;
e.g. "Änderungssatz"="changeset", "Zweig"="branch",
"Lesezeichen"="bookmark", ...), and leave those terms untranslated,
where a translation only confuses, is unhandy or creates a language
barrier (best example: "Binärriese"="largefile").

Rupert, I started this discussion because of your changes, but you don't
take part in the discussion. Don't you want to contribute to a solution
to discussion?

I think we should schedule an IRC or telephone conference with all
German translators to figure out what the solution could be and then
report to the mailing list. Who's with me?

Regards,
Martin