The generics of translation

[Adrian Buehlmann]

(re-adding -devel list to cc)

On 2012-07-04 23:03, Martin Schröder wrote:
> Am 03.07.2012 22:16, schrieb Adrian Buehlmann:
>> On 2012-07-03 21:24, Adrian Buehlmann wrote:
>>> On 2012-07-03 19:57, Martin Schröder wrote:
>>>> Also, there is a difference between spoken and formal language. My
>>>> friends and I use "merge" as a German verb, but would rather write
>>>> "zusammenführen" in a documentation.
>>>
>>> How about using "Merge-Vorgang"?
>>>
>>> "Beim Merge-Vorgang werden die Dokumente..." ("When doing a merge, the
>>> documents are...").
>>>
>>> "War der Merge-Vorgang erfolgreich, dann können Sie..." ("If the merge
>>> was successful, then you can...").
>>>
>>> I think, in English using "merging" is almost as sloppy as the German
>>> transliteration "mergen". So if you find (German-ish) "mergen" not
>>> formal enough, you could perhaps avoid it in English as well by trying
>>> to use "execute a merge-operation!" (formal) instead of "do a merge!"
>>> (informal) ["Führen Sie einen Merge-Vorgang durch" vs "Mergen Sie!"].
>>
>> I just digged a bit around. See for example the German (!) word
>> "scannen" (Engl.: "to scan").
> 
> This is one example. There are also contrary ones.
> In the field of computer technology there are English loan words (like
> "scannen") and existing German words with expanded meaning (like
> "aufrufen" for starting a program, "Datei"="file", ...)

If I pick up your example "aufrufen", then I think this is an example of
broad, well established usage.

But what Mercurial does is introducing new technology (DVCS). This is a
technology, which I think hasn't really yet penetrated it's intended
"market". But I think it eventually will. And translations probably will
help achieving that.

If I take four random examples of companies in Switzerland where I
mentioned that there would be the possibilty of using Mercurial for
tracking code changes (and I wasn't evangelizing at all), three of them
already used an SCM tool, but had never heard of Mercurial or DVCS'es,
but weren't willing to even look at it. Another company even refused to
use a version control tool at all (which lead me to refuse making a
contract with them for that exact reason, FWIW).

So what you see here ist a "new" field (version control in general and
DVCS in particular). I think it probably needs to be compared to the
advent of other technologies. Perhaps a DVCS will never be as ubiquitous
as a scanner. So, "merge" in the sense it is used in the domain of
version control will most likely never make it into the Duden.

But the Duden is not dead. It tracks actual use of German language.
Amazingly quickly, FWIW.

> The existence of English loan words doesn't tell us that we have to
> import more and more. Likewise doesn't the existence of German words in
> the computer tech field tell us, that we have to continue to invent more
> and more.
> 
> Your argumentation doesn't lead us anywhere.

That might well be the case. Also my opinions are strongly biased from
that Swiss-German (and my personal) angle.

I do have no experience in doing translations. I know German (~13
years), English (~7 years) and French (~8 years) from pre-academic
education in Switzerland (duration given in parentheses).

> I would rather do "what is right" instead of doing what everyone else does.

That's a very good stance.

> So what is right for the translation of new technology in general,
> computer programs, or especially mercurial?

I don't know the answer, I'm afraid. My motivation for posting was to
throw in some ideas, not driving you to any particular decision. I think
in the end it is perhaps better to have a decision at all than nothing.
So what you currently have may be perfectly fine for now.

I keep repeating myself, but I also don't really want to interfere with
the decision making in your translation team.