The generics of translation

[Na'Tosha Bard]

2012/7/6 Fabian Kreutz <fabian.kreutz at qvantel.com>

> Saluton!
>
> MM> In other words, I could have used established technical terms like
> MM> transmit/retrieve in English and _intentionally_ chose not to. Instead
> I
> MM> chose to introduce a specific non-technical metaphor push/pull[1].
>
> AB> The current "de" translation of the help text for the push command is a
> AB> bit inconsistent:
> AB> It has:
> AB>  -b --branch BRANCH [+]        Revision, die geschoben werden soll
>
> AB> hg push [-f] [-r REV]... [-e CMD] [--remotecmd CMD] [DEST]
> AB> push changes to the specified destination
>
> I totally agree here!  a) this is a bug in the de translation.
> b) While the metaphor is great for the command name ("hg push" instead
> of "hg check-differences-and-add-missing-changesets") it looses a lot
> when it's used ALSO inside the definition text.
>
> So there does not seem to be a problem in the de.po file.
> The definition of the "hg push" command describes it as a transfer, as
> the english version should also do.
>
> MM> I am
> MM> quite confident that people in Germany push and pull physical objects
> MM> just as we do here in the US, so I won't believe for a second that the
> MM> metaphor isn't just as valid in Germany as it is here.
>
> As Adrian mentiones, a push is not actually a Sokoban operation. Maybe
> that's
> why I always felt "schieben" as an insufficient description.
> I guess it's in general less common in german to give new specific uses to
> general words. That's why anglizism enter the language so easily.
> Nobody would understand "auf-der-Linie" (which simply means "on (the)
> line")
> as something connected to the internet - it's too generic. As a result
> there
> is no translation of the word "online". We rather take a new word with
> weird
> pronounciation, than give a new meaning to old words.
> But this fact does not mean that english words must be preserved. The
> natural
> solution for me is to find a word which repeats the helpful metaphor
> (subjectively
> as I understand it), even if it is not literally the same.
>
> I heard the argument that people will be lost in public forums when they
> use "uncommon" words.  I simply cannot imagine such an occasion.
> If in the worst case somebody who always uses the german words goes to an
> english
> forum to ask about a pull and says "So after I called up the changes..."
> then it
> will be understood!
>


I probably would not understand what it means to "call up the changes" (and
English is my native language).  My best guess would be that to "call up
changesets" would mean to run "hg log", e.g, look at them, but not transfer
them anywhere.  In any case I would be forced to ask for clarification.

Cheers,
Na'Tosha


>  *) "call up" would be a really bad re-translation of "abrufen".
> In the end we do not rid the topic from the original command names. So
> even the
> pure german reader will know the word "hg pull".
>
> Fazit: I don't see a problem with the current solutions.  It's made with
> common
> sense (or so I'd like to believe) :).
>
> Bye, Fabian
>
> PS: I'm on a train, your argument is invalid! ;)
> I'm surprised to realize that there is free WLAN in many finnish trains.
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-- 
*Na'Tosha Bard*
Software Developer | Unity Technologies - Copenhagen

*E-Mail:* natosha at unity3d.com
*Skype:* natosha.bard
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