Discussion about Mercurial 4.8 Sprint

Sean Farley sean at farley.io
Fri Jul 13 23:33:19 EDT 2018


Martin von Zweigbergk <martinvonz at google.com> writes:

> On Fri, Jul 13, 2018, 00:32 Sean Farley <sean at farley.io> wrote:
>
>>
>> Martin von Zweigbergk <martinvonz at google.com> writes:
>>
>> > On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 9:11 PM Sean Farley <sean at farley.io> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Martin von Zweigbergk <martinvonz at google.com> writes:
>> >>
>> >> > On Thu, Jul 12, 2018, 17:41 Sean Farley <sean at farley.io> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Martin von Zweigbergk via Mercurial-devel <
>> >> >> mercurial-devel at mercurial-scm.org> writes:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Since there was no consensus in this thread, we discussed it in the
>> >> >> > steering committee. We decided to do it in Europe this time (i.e.
>> the
>> >> 4.8
>> >> >> > sprint) since everyone indicated that they could make it there. We
>> >> also
>> >> >> > decided to do it Oct 12-14 and to do it in Stockholm. I'll send a
>> >> >> separate
>> >> >> > email to the list about that.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I guess I'm really confused about this. In this thread, many people,
>> >> >> myself included, offered to help and even began the process of
>> securing
>> >> >> a meeting location.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Could you please provide insight on how the decision was made? Were
>> >> >> venue offers made privately?
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > No offers made privately (why do you ask?), the offers we had were on
>> the
>> >> > wiki. Those offers were Tokyo, Lyon, and Stockholm. According to the
>> >> > availability table, everyone was able to come to Europe, but not
>> everyone
>> >> > could make it to Asia, so we decided not to do it in Tokyo this time.
>> The
>> >> > Lyon location was an hour or two further away from most locations and
>> the
>> >> > Stockholm location (except from France, of course). So I proposed
>> doing
>> >> it
>> >> > in Stockholm and no one objected.
>> >>
>> >> In this thread, we talked and made plans so far for some place in France
>> >> (either Paris or Lyon). The wiki page you mentioned is an opt-in only
>> >> notification and I haven't edited that page nor was I subscribed which
>> >> is why I asked about private offers. Not everyone on this mailing list
>> >> got those notifications... so, of course, no one objected because not
>> >> many of us even knew Stockholm was a serious contender.
>> >>
>> >
>> > I updated this thread saying that we'd updated wiki with availability for
>> > Tokyo and Stockholm. There wasn't much more than a mention of Lyon and
>> > Paris either, so I don't know why Stockholm would be less serious.
>> >
>> >
>> >> It feels like a decision was made without involving the rest of the
>> >> community that was already discussing this sprint.
>> >>
>> >
>> > I can understand that it felt that way, and I'm sorry about that. I
>> suppose
>> > we could have decided only between Asia and Europe to start with and then
>> > updated the Availability table on the wiki to have Lyon/Stockholm columns
>> > instead (Paris didn't seem realistic given the small space). That would
>> > clearly have delayed the decision (by a week? two?), but perhaps that
>> would
>> > have been fine given that the sprint ended up being quite late in the
>> fall
>> > this time. At least I (I don't know about others) felt like it was better
>> > to decide something than to hear everyone's point of view, because I had
>> a
>> > feeling we would not reach consensus even if we did.
>>
>> I understand the need to make a decision. But this was making a decision
>> without presenting a clear timeline nor even presenting, you know, an
>> email saying what you just said above: that you're about to make a
>> decision and here are your current thoughts.
>>
>
> I agree, that would have been fair. We should have sent a notification to
> this thread with something like "This thread is not making progress, so the
> steering committee will decide on a location and time". That message should
> also have been clear that we were going to decide on an exact location, not
> just a continent, so people could provide more specific comments about
> that.

I understand that email communication can be difficult but I am
disheartened by your response. It dismisses my work and all the
volunteers in this thread by ignoring the progress we made. All I wanted
from this thread was for the committee to engage in a positive way with
the community. To tell all the community members I've met in my time
that it is worth it to volunteer.

I don't believe all is lost, though.

> I don't think we'd heard anything more specific than "I prefer
> Europe" or "I prefer Asia" in this thread (or on the wiki), except that it
> was pretty clear that Kyle preferred Tokyo (or at least Japan in general).
> Thanks for the feedback. We'll try to do better next time.

I thought my offers and that of the others qualified as more than
complaints or "I prefer Europe." I've offered to help. Marla offered to
help. A lot of people spoke up for trying to make something work in
France ... yet, Stockholm was chosen?

It doesn't add up to me. And I very much hope you see how rude this
comes off for community members that thought they could try and help but
were dismissed. I've had people tell me this has been off-putting to
them. And I empathize very much because I, too, feel it.
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